5G Talent Talk with Carrie Charles (00:00)
Thank you for joining me today on 5G Talent Talk. I'm Keri Charles, your host, and I'm very excited about this episode for many reasons. You are gonna learn a lot today about workforce development, and also you're gonna have quite a few resources that you can access. And also because I've got three of my friends on the show today. And I'd like to introduce first to you Deborah Kish. She is the Vice President of Research and Workforce Development for the Fiber Broadband Association. Deb Bennett.

the Vice President of Apprenticeship and TI -RAP for the Wireless Infrastructure Association, and Cesar Ruiz. He is the President and CEO of the Learning Alliance Corporation. So welcome. I am thrilled to have you on the show. I think what we should do first is take a few minutes and just talk about...

you know, who you are and also introduce your organization. So Deborah, would you like to start? Sure. So thanks, Carrie. And I'm happy to be here. This is a great opportunity. I'm Deborah Kish, Vice President of Research and Workforce Development for the Fiber Broadband Association. And my job is basically to oversee and manage research partnerships and the development of the resources that we have here at Fiber Broadband.

And I also run and launch a fiber optic tech training program here at FBA. Nice, Deb. Thank you, Carrie. Deb Bonnet, vice president of apprenticeship at WIA, the Wireless Infrastructure Association. Our members really run the gamut. They build, develop, own, operate America's wireless and broadband infrastructure.

We also have the distinction of being a national sponsor of apprenticeship for TIRAP, Telecommunications Industry Registered Apprenticeship Program. So we've been in that capacity since 2017. And I've had the good fortune of being named one of maybe less than 30 recognized industry intermediaries by the Department of Labor in that space. So my team's goal is to take our wealth of experience as apprenticeship practitioners

and help employers expedite their adoption of registered apprenticeships. So they get to build the workforce that they need and they want and supports their business overall. Very good. Very good. Cesar. Yes. So I'm Cesar Ruiz, president and CEO of Learning Alliance. Been very blessed to be a part of this industry now for about seven years. And in this window of time, it's been a crazy roller coaster from

being a 22 year expert in workforce development, but actually focusing on one specific industry, which is telecom. And that's really evolving into broadband. And as we all know, wireless, wireline, overhead, underground, it's all becoming one framework and one solution. And we're very blessed at Learning Alliance to basically take veterans and underserved population, black, brown, women, and really 72 % veterans.

and put them into our industry, get them into a great bootcamp, build that next generation workforce, and then ensuring that when they go into the industry, that they have the right framework to stay in the industry with the main goal of getting them to year one, because if they make it that far, that long, we're gonna keep them. So I'd like to say that each one of you has been a guest individually on 5G Talent Talk, right? Absolutely. How exciting. So if you...

would like to go back through our archives and listen and really, really get acquainted with these three, then please do that because those episodes were fantastic. So Deborah, let's start, and I wanna start this from the very beginning, talking about the event that is coming up soon, Fiber Connect. And just, we'll talk about it now, we'll talk about it a little bit at the end, but talk about what is the event?

who attends, how do we register, what date, that type of thing. Yeah, I can't believe that it's going to be, it's less than a month away. You know, the year is just flying by so fast and, you know, it'll be here before we know it. So, Fiber Connect is our annual conference and it is the largest, the largest event where innovation and collaboration in the fiber broadband industry happen.

This year our theme is accelerating our fiber future, which really in my view captures the essence of how communities and municipalities and economies and people really thrive when fiber networks are deployed. We're back in Nashville this year, Nashville, Tennessee, and it's from July 28th through July 31st, and we are looking very forward to seeing over 4 ,000

fiber enthusiasts, leaders, and visionaries. So it's everybody from broadband offices, internet service providers, contractors, vendors of equipment, and just visionaries across the board. Folks from municipalities, public officials, you name it, and anybody in the fiber broadband industry will be there.

So we have grown every year. Last year we were, I think, at 37 or 3800. And this year we're already expecting over 4 ,000 attendees. So Deborah, you have just given all of us a wonderful idea on what we need to put on our LinkedIn profile. Fiber enthusiast. That's it. I like that.

Yeah, so I mean, I've been in the telecommunications industry for 25 years. I mean, I started in broadband and then I moved on to different topics, but I've come full circle and here I am back in broadband and fiber is a great place to be. It is it is and we're going to talk a lot about that today. First, another thing I'd like to discuss is that the three of you are going to be leading a workshop at fiber connect and can you talk a little bit about the workshop?

the content, who should attend and why, and is there any opportunity to participate or get the information in a different way if someone cannot attend the event? So, Cesar, I'm going to pass that to you. Well, I appreciate it, Deb. So for us, this is going to be a great workshop. It's not going to be a panel. It'll be very interactive. So what we're saying to everyone in the audience is that if you want to participate,

in an interactive format, what we're going to talk about broadband, specifically fiber, and a lot of the work that is going to come from Bead and everything that's occurring in the space of fiber, really think of the fact that FBA has done an incredible job of creating a pathway. And we're essentially creating a workshop that allows executives, municipalities, recruiters, HR representatives to basically be put into pods.

in a workshop environment where we're going to go through an entire case study framework to support your organizations, your growth and development, your retention of workforce. And then really, how do we evolve really within this space? And if we look at FBA, they've really created a great blueprint. So it to me, it's one of the greatest hidden secrets. The optic optic path, the structure, the framework, the way the competencies are broken down.

You know, we at Learning Alliance, we've taken all their direction, built the program, for example, to get people into the industry. But I think what the industry is not recognizing is the fact that if you're an employer from an executive to a talent recruiter, to an HR person, there is a methodology that applies to each and every one in our industry so that we can all evolve in one single sheet of music, because so many organizations are going in so many different directions.

I believe that this could be our North Star. So let's talk about how to register. Is it on the website, anything unique or different we need to do? so registering for Fiber Connect, you can go to our website, which is at www .fiberbroadband .org. And under the events menu is where you would find Fiber Connect 2024. And the registration for this event is an add -on.

to registration for the full conference. And the workshop is titled what?

Cesar. It's a it's under fiber optic pathway workforce development. OK, perfect. Perfect. I didn't mean to spring that on you there. I just get all the information out here. We all have each other's backs here. I mean, we look out for each other. But something else to add to that, Carrie, that I think that was about to mention is that when you go in there and you register, it becomes an option. Make sure that you look for the workshop. It'll be on Monday and.

When you see it, you click on it, you'll be able to register. And the reason why that's so critical is because we've got to prepare curriculum for it. We're going to be doing major amounts of printouts. There's a lot of tech users that we want to be able to support. So imagine we want to make it interactive, unlike just the typical panel. We want to make sure that everyone is served correctly. So please take the time to register, not just for the great event at FBA, but also for the workshop that will be on that Monday.

Okay, you'll literally walk away with the plan or the beginning of your plan, your workforce development plan associated with your beat application. So it really is going to put you on a path for success. Well, we need this. We need this. We need this. Okay, so let's go into depth about FBA's optic path. Deborah, tell us more about it. What is it? How is it created? What's the vision? Sure. So optic path is FBA's

comprehensive vendor neutral fiber optic technician training course that we developed to address the need for training in the industry. It actually brings back the deep knowledge that has been lost over the past few decades, which serves a very few key important purposes like reducing the onboarding time to an internal training from months down to weeks. I mean we've seen some of the graduates coming out of CESARS courses

where they've reduced from six to nine months down to, I think, five weeks or somewhere in that neighborhood. So the ROI is recognized far sooner. Basically, it's designed, this is a course that's designed to turn a person that's never had any fiber experience in the past to an entry -level fiber optic technician, but can also serve as a tool to re -skill or up -skill existing fiber optic technicians within the organization.

So with deeper knowledge, we believe our training will lead to long lasting careers because we're bringing in topics that are generally not taught in some of the existing programs available out there right now. And lastly, there does not exist currently a recognized trusted credential out there. And we're aiming towards the path to becoming that, a recognized and trusted credential in the industry.

So basically if you see FBA optic path on a job posting, you'll know that employers, the standard is, what their standard is. And if you see optic path on a resume, then you know you have a well -trained individual much the same as, I like to compare it to Cisco CCNA, and that's the direction that we're headed in. It was created by and continues to evolve by

the people who actually built the industry. So our member base is the creators of fiber optic cables and technology, as well as the people who actually deploy it. So between our technology committee and our deployment specialist committee, these two melded together and we created this working, this is part of two of our 16 working groups.

And then together that's coupled with an education committee, which is also inclusive of people who build the industry and people who are deploying networks and people who are hiring people to build these networks. So that's basically how we created it. And Carrie, to add to that, something really, really important.

We over at Learning Alliance took everything that they've created. I mean, they built such a great curriculum pathway that we've been able to apply it. And we have employers that are now reporting back that what was six months and seven days to make a fiber technician profitable is now occurring in 33 days. And that is something that we've now been able to confirm with multiple employers. And it isn't that LAC did anything unique or specialist, the fact that the curricula

is very well articulated to incorporate a very solid hands -on practical approach of learning. And the net result is really higher efficiency, greater quality. And at the end of the day, what I believe is gonna be critical for BEADs is it's gonna support that last mile of connectivity. I believe that's where FBA's pathway is going to be truly the pathway of the future that we should consider as an industry and as individuals.

because it's not a CCNA, this is going to be the FBA optics path that credentials and supports quality and consistency. Yeah. And we also, just to clear things up, we also vetted this through hiring outside plant hiring managers and human resources and human resources people just to make sure that we captured what the industry needs and wants. So that's how we shaped it.

So that's me. Okay, we need this. I am so excited right now. Everybody needs to come to this workshop that's listening. I don't care if you live overseas, you gotta fly in. So let's talk about apprenticeship programs because I know there's a lot of information here and there's a lot of opportunity here. So Deb, could you start us off with just a little bit about what is an apprenticeship program in our industry?

maybe with what programs that are available through WIA, how can small and mid -sized companies participate? Yeah, you bet. Apprenticeship, essentially, is industry -driven. It's a high -quality career pathway that employers can use to develop either their existing workforce so you can upskill those individuals so they become more competent in a specific sector, so to speak.

Or you can bring new hires into the program and really teach them the opportunity or provide them the opportunity to gain that skill through practical on the job experiences. So apprentices are paid individuals. So it's a W -2 individual. They have work -based learning opportunities. So that's a on the job learning piece. All of that is done with the oversight of a mentor. So if you think back.

back in the ancient days when I started in telecommunication, you had a mentor. You did. Back in 94, 95 when wireless started, I had a terrific mentor. And we got away from that over the years. Apprenticeship brings that concept back. So paid employees, work -based learning, a mentor, and then you supplement the on the job with some classroom base or supplemental education, often called related instruction.

Hence, the partnership WIA and TIRAP has with FBA and the optic path. Because that training is defined. It's been mapped to our occupations that we have available, whether it's a fiber optic technician, broadband technician, et cetera. It has been mapped and aligned. So we know how many training hours translate over. So it's been a good partnership. And that's what employers are looking for. They're looking to upskill.

their existing staff, right? So they've got some adjacent competencies. It's time to move over and develop those. You can use OpticPath for that. Or if you're bringing in, to Debbie's point earlier, someone brand new with no experience, here's the path forward. It's been completely outlined. But all of this at the end of the day, the individual walks away with a credential recognizing their successful completion of the program. They are recognized as a journey.

And they get to take that with them. It's portable. But it really is a badge of honor that they have completed this program. And it tells everyone else, hey, I've consistently applied a training methodology. And I'm graduating individuals. I'm putting them out in the industry. And it picks up some of the elements Cesar mentioned earlier, right? Higher quality, more consistency, et cetera, more efficiency on the job. So that's really apprenticeship in a nutshell.

Okay, very good. Deb, do you want to go into detail now about a little bit more about TIRAP or how companies can participate or do that later? Yeah, I can do it now.

So, Carrie, a lot of times we get asked how do small, mid -size, or even frankly large companies get involved. It's really rather simple. You can reach out to WIA as a national sponsor, and we set up an overview with the employer to go over what occupations we have available. So since our start in 2017, we've registered 105 employers to participate in the program.

And we have Department of Labor approval on 16 different occupations. And we really have them out by sector. So we've got some broadband sector, some tower. That's where we got our start in TIRAP is really started with that telecom tower technician. And we built out a full career pathway there. But then we also partnered with PCCA Power and Communication Contractors Association and built out some additional occupations.

bringing in that service underground overhead or putting them into a utility foreman occupation. So we've got a variety of options available. But WIA's team ends up being an extension of that employer's team. So we really pride ourselves on the high level of technical assistance that we bring to the table. You just don't register and we go away. We stick with you throughout the process.

We still have employers that registered in 2017 that meet with us every other week, just because they want to, not because they certainly have to at this point. But the long and short of it is we have a lot of options. You make an appointment with us. We educate employers on what registered apprenticeship is. And when they're confident, when they understand the requirements, and they have a bit of a plan on how they're going to implement.

That's when we engage them with signing up and registering and being part of the program. But then the real work begins. But again, you have the WIA team to rely on to help you through the process. So real quick, what is the website for WIA? You can go to tirap .org. T -I -R -A -P dot org, tirap .org will get you started. Okay, wonderful, wonderful. So Cesar, you have a lot to say on this subject too, apprenticeship. I do, I believe that

apprenticeships is really the true path of workforce development. And, you know, I really give Deb a ton of credit because, you know, what she's been able to do over at TIRAP to really establish TIRAP is really impressive. We're a smaller version of what TIRAP has created. You know, when you think of Unifi, which is our version of TIRAP, they are, you know, the same style of nationally recognized. We've also added some state programs also, but ultimately, you know,

Just like Deb, you know, we believe in the model that there has to be a methodology to retain our employees, grow them and develop them accordingly. And what we've been able to really work on under UNIFI is how do we take our graduates? How do we develop them so that when we give them to an employer, we're providing a change agent as it relates to the way that the culture of workforce development can then be viewed by that organization. So with many of our employers, which most of our employers are small,

you know, we don't have a lot of major, major, large, large organizations. We're still focused on a lot of the smaller companies that do not have a training department. They may lack some of the support in administration and through our funding, what we do is we give them a lot of the resources. We kind of act like a training department underneath that employer that doesn't have the capital, the CapEx or the capital in order to support that.

so that when they bring in our graduates, we then treat the rest of their employees the exact same way. We onboard them into an apprenticeship structure, and then we give them access to the same related instruction that they would have available. The beauty is if they're coming from a fiber program, the optic pathway, the curricula that my graduates come with is something that then they're gonna be able to utilize through the next two or three iterations of truly an apprenticeship life cycle because

you may have the certification, but you may not have mastered those competencies. And that is where the apprenticeship really comes into play. That's why the FBA model to me is so critical, because whether you're taking an LAC graduate, whether you're just taking an existing employee, making them an apprentice through Unifi, the ultimate goal is to ensure that they have a very clean curricula. FBA has done that.

All we're trying to do is provide 21 additional instructors to maybe talk about the application of that skill in their very specific environment. Give them the related technical instruction that then can maybe work based on an S -O -W that they're currently working on, whether it's middle mile or last mile. Getting them a success coach, someone to administer and manage, and someone that can pretty much do all the reporting for them. So at the end of the day,

We're just trying to act like a training department that nobody has to put in their PNL, but still get all the benefits of that because we get to share the resources across all of the organizations that we support. And the more that we support, the more resources we can provide. Yes. So Cesar, how can we learn more about Unifi and Learning Alliance, your website? Carrie, good question. Go to mylearningalliance .com. And what you're going to realize when you go to My Learning Alliance is that if you're looking

for a next generation workforce and you want to grab our graduates, that'll be available. If not, there's something called LASI, Learning Alliance School of Continuing Education. That's basically where all of our graduates go once they graduate. That's our alumni, the Wolf Pack. And once you're part of the Wolf Pack and you're a part of that alumni, then you can be an apprentice and then you go into Unifi, because Unifi is really the structure, is the tech stack, the 19 employees that support

The individual the mentor the mentor training All the way down to the reporting that needs to be done to the employer So again, it's my learning alliance comm and either click on the last C link or just Ask for a contact and we will have an appointment within 48 hours wonderful wonderful so You know we hear We just hear a lot about training right training training training. That's what's needed and

I'm just curious, how are we doing as an industry with training? How's it going? I'll start with what I think is the critical piece of delivering the training. And I see a need for instructors. So much so that WIA, FBA, PCCA, and Nate came together with a campaign, with a call for instructors. So you have this marvelous talent that's leaving the industry. But yet, I think they've got

Such an opportunity to give back. So if you don't get a chance to capture that knowledge before they leave, here's a chance for individuals to serve as an instructor and bring it back to the industry. So you can go to broadbandinstructors .com and fill out a little information sheet and someone from WIA will contact you and you can talk about your interest in becoming an instructor, your qualifications, et cetera. But I see we have a need for instructors.

Very good. That is true. I believe, Carrie, something that is lacking is when you look at the academic institutions in our industry, one of the big impediments is that colleges are struggling to find a skilled technician in that local area that has the will and the want and ability with the tribal knowledge to then organize it in a well put together format to then deliver that for the next generation. What we've tried to do to help with that, Carrie, is out of our

slew of instructors. We're essentially telling the industry when you need someone since a lot of these programs are not set up in the typical one semester, two semesters, one year, two year models because these are short entry level skills development to get them to employability. We're trying to help the industry by providing assets access to our instructors but I do agree with Deb. You know there does need to be a better way

so that when we do have people retire, how can they contribute back in a way where they're not maybe in the elements, you know, 12 hours a day, six days a week and still retain that tribal knowledge, which is unfortunately what we see being lost consistently. It's one of the first things we try to control when we go into an employer under Unifi is what is your tribal knowledge? Let's pack it under each of the competencies as your secret sauce, because that is what's going to make your organization better.

for each and every generation. Because as Deb Bennett will tell you, the competencies are very broad. They're very broad statements that an employer is completely empowered to customize and modify so that when we say antenna installation, that could mean something totally different depending on the work that they're doing and every employer is empowered. So let's retain all of that tribal knowledge so that we don't lose it as

are people coming down. Yeah, so I'm gonna take this in a little bit of a different direction. My comments are twofold. So I think I 100 % agree with the shortage of instructors. So, and to put a number to it, about 63 to 70 % of our workforce, of our current workforce is on the retirement path. So we need to fill that pipeline. And that is a great segue into my first.

my first point of view which is we need to drive interest. You know, Cesar's got a great program in that he's got the connection to the veterans so he's got literally no shortage because we always see people coming out of the military and looking to get back into civilian life and they've got to find jobs, they've got to get trained. So that's great but where I see some struggle is some of the community colleges are

kind of struggling to get interest from young people who have never been in the industry before. So there's work to do there. And we're doing a lot of stuff. In Mississippi, for example, we have, along with Duraline Academy, we've created a bundle of a free course that is Fiber 101, Your Future in Fiber Broadband, and I think that there's a construction element there as well.

you know just trying to get some interest and they had some good results and they had forty eight young people who took the course with one hundred and nineteen i think it was completed courses and a four point eight satisfaction rate so you know there's all these all these different things that we have to do to gain interest in the industry because i've always said that it's the best kept secret on the planet in telecommunications so young people get out there and and get to know why

or how your mobile phone works. So the second part of my spiel that I tend to go with is that I don't think that training is being taken as seriously as it should be now because now we're, now that the bead money is getting, the states are getting rolled out and once that money gets dispersed or dispensed, the shot clock starts. So I'm afraid that

You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result and we have to stop that. And they're not, the ISPs and the contractors are not taking training, I think, as seriously as they should. And now is the time to start preparing for that. So now we have to get people trained, not just like, hey, you're a warm body, let me show you how to do this, but real knowledge -based and skills training.

We're looking at creating careers here, not just jobs, not just occupations. So what I'm afraid of is that, you know, because of the lack of urgency, then at some point, they're going to say, okay, now I have to start building my network. And wait a minute, I have no bodies to do that. Wait a minute, I don't have a really good, because I mean, a lot of our homework has been in that, you know, are existing programs good enough?

to get you going and running and get your networks built and the answer was, there's not enough knowledge built in there, there's not enough hands on skills training. Our course is 40 % knowledge, 60 % hands on. So this is how we can get people on the ground running shorter ROI times and get those networks built. If we don't, then I'm afraid this industry is gonna keep doing the same thing that they've been doing for the last 30, 35.

But just taking it the next step further, right? Deb, you're talking about a lack of urgency, right? And so what I see, we talked about ROI, but there's another ROI and it's called risk of inaction. So what happens if you don't take your steps now? Well, you're not making any progress toward your goal of building a qualified and skilled workforce. You're just not. You're just talking about it. You know it's there, but you're putting it off. The longer you put it off, the harder it is to get engaged.

And then that makes you vulnerable to missed opportunities. So sit on it, think about it. But what we're really offering here are some opportunities to take action. So through a variety of different ways, through apprenticeship, through the training program, through FBA. And it's all going to be covered at the workshop, right ladies? That's why everyone needs to come to the workshop because we're covering all of this in a hands -on approach. This is just a teaser.

So Cesar, you mentioned an example or two of let's say, you know, we procrastinate ISPs, contractors, the training really doesn't happen. And then what happens? So Carrie, it wasn't just the lack of an existing workforce to help them meet the requirements of their project. It was the fact that, okay, the curriculum wasn't there and it needed to be a customized solution because they're doing fixed wireless and fiber.

So there was no shrink -wrap predefined solution. And the worst part is, even though there was demand and need and support from the local government, from the colleges, it was the lack and the inability to actually recruit people, to educate, to go out there and actually provide that career exploration to get people excited about the jobs. Now, were we able to do it in three weeks? Yes.

But the list was massive, Carrie We went through over a thousand resumes to identify individuals. We had to conduct over 250 interviews just to find those few far in between that understand the rigor of this job and are willing to put in the effort to actually make this a career. We almost had to develop this from scratch. And when we did, it was very, very, it was just very rewarding. The spirit of Oklahoma.

was very apparent. I saw government officials, I saw employers, I saw academic institutions unite as one and say, what you did, we need to document and we need to replicate. So now here we are in August, September, October, and November. Our goal is to hit all four corners of the state, including central Oklahoma, with a methodology where the funds are already there. We're just gonna massively go after ensuring that.

We're getting the right people, the right vetting process, and letting them know that when they graduate, it doesn't end there. You're lifelong learners. You're not going to become an apprentice. Whether they become a Unified representative or a Thai rap representative, the one thing I believe me and Deb both agree in is the fact that if we don't create lifelong learning capabilities for people to actually evolve, we're going to lose them. We're going to lose them to unions. We're going to lose them to other industries that have it well defined.

because we're consistently inconsistent in our learning development methodology. And I pray that this becomes a bit of a roadmap that we can then share to show how public private organizations can unite as one in order to create enough interest, fill the jobs. I have a great level of employers that are now happy with what occurred. Now we're gonna do it again until we can demonstrate that it's sustainable. Yes, yes.

So I have a question. So obviously the goal is to train, find, train and hire this massive workforce to deploy fiber, bridge the digital divide. What happens to these people when the networks are built and the projects are complete? Will they still have jobs? I believe they will. I mean, that's, I mean, feel free to jump in on this. I think that there's so much work after it's built, just to maintain it, support it.

and then further develop it because it's just like a piece of software. You don't just build in and walk away. Yeah, absolutely. So we get asked that all the time. And there are endless opportunities. I mentioned that we are building careers and we're building knowledge back into the job. The more subscribers, the more fiber subscribers there are, the more knock opportunities, help desk, call centers, et cetera. So endless opportunities.

WIA is finishing up and we demoed this at Connectivity Expo, a career pathways tool. And it really goes to the design jobs, the build, the maintain and the support. So there are careers that are crossing over. But we need people to be aware of our industry first and the careers are there. So there's great opportunity in the future. Fantastic. Okay. I am going to go down the list to let people know.

exactly where they can register, all the links, all the websites. So how do we register for Fiber Connect? At FBA's website, www .FiberBroadband .org under the events tab. Okay, and then how do we register for your workshop at Fiber Connect? Under the events link, you go to the Fiber Connect 2024 and register for Fiber Connect and then add on

in during your registration process, add on the workshop. Now I would like more information on the FBA optic pathway. Where do I find that? Go to www .fiberbroadband .org under the resources menu and you'll see a specific link to optic path. Okay, now I'm going to give Deb and Cesar a chance here. How do I get more information about Learning Alliance and WIA and TIRAP? WIAZWIA .org or TIRAP.

T -I -R -A -P dot org. Me is pretty simple. MyLearningAlliance .com. Easy. OK, this was wonderful. Thank you so, so much. Full of information and resources. And we all need to make this urgent and pay attention to this. Right? OK, take care. Bye, guys. Bye, bye. Thanks, everyone. Bye, bye.