5G Talent Talk with Carrie Charles (00:01)
Welcome to 5G Talent Talk. I'm Carrie Charles, your host, and I'm really excited that you're here with me today. I have a guest that I have known for so, many years, and I'm glad that we get to have a conversation today about a little bit of everything in the industry. It's gonna be a fun chat, so stay with us. Rich Berliner. Rich is the founder and CEO of 5th Gen Media, which also publishes Charged Up.

a multimedia publication about electric vehicle fleet charging. And we're going to hear a lot more about that in a minute. Rich, welcome to 5G Talent Talk. Carrie, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be with you. And we have known each other a long time. And I have to say, you are one of the most energetic people I know in the business. so I the challenge for us today is to inform people why I'm on a 5G Talent podcast.

and what the connection is, because there is a great one. thank you for having me and I'm happy to talk about anything you want to today. good. Good. Well, you know what, Rich, let's start with you because you have been, how long have you been in the industry and wireless now? You know, I just hit my 40th anniversary in the business. A very dear friend of mine, guy named Mark Lewis from Samsung.

just announced his retirement. Mark was my junior Panasonic rep in 1985 we met and that's how long we knew each other. He's just retired. I'm too stubborn to retire at this point, but some of us did get to leave. Wow, that is phenomenal. Talk a little bit about, you know, what you where you were then and

and then where you are now because a lot has transpired and you really are looked at as a voice of the industry, a leader in the industry and so many people respect you. Thank you for saying that. That's very kind. I guess it's like if you hang around long enough that happens. I guess I'm a gray beard by far in the industry. I was literally stumbled onto an opportunity to sell cell phones in 1985.

and that's when I got into the business and literally I was working for one of the first resellers in New York and then moved on to the first agent for the second carrier in New York. And it's been a really incredible career since then. feel, and I think it's legitimate that I was there at the dawn of the cell phone era. Literally, we were selling cell phones before there was a network and we called it selling phones to the Ferrari and gold chain set.

And so, you know, I was there at the very beginning. Then I decided that I thought the money was going to be in building out the network rather than selling phones necessarily. And so for the rest of my career in the cell phone space, I built out the networks. My company, BCI, built out over a billion dollars worth of infrastructure around the country. And so we, you know, I consider myself

one of the people that helped make your cell phone work. But it was a long, interesting process. And so, you know, I did that. I started my own firm in 1995. We did construction for a number of years. You know me well enough to know I'm a stone cold entrepreneur. And so, you know, I've built businesses and sold them. And that's sort of what happened with 5th Gen Media. About seven years ago,

I decided that the in-building space was a really interesting place to be after I sold BCI. And I embarked on doing a publication called Connected Real Estate. And it was all about in-building wireless to the real estate industry. And it was a fascinating opportunity to understand social media, publishing, you know, literally a physical magazine, which looks...

silly in this day and age, but once the pandemic hit, there was nobody to send it to at an office anywhere. We didn't have people's home addresses. So we turned it into a digital publication. And again, I sold that about two years ago or so. in casting about for the next opportunity, a friend approached me about the EV fleet charging space about two and a half years ago. And I thought it was a really interesting

opportunity and I got involved with this fellow and helped to do some marketing for that company. But at the end of the day, I saw an opportunity just like with Connected Real Estate to start charged up and what it is basically rather than an opportunity to sell advertising, know, people look at that as if you have an axe to grind, you have a point of view based on who's advertising.

So we're moving towards in the very near future a subscription model for all things electric vehicle charging. And that's what Charged Up is all about. We've developed a community. We've been doing a soft launch for about six or seven months now. We've developed a community and now we're moving this to a subscription model in the near future. And it's been a really cool journey. The reason that this fits with your 5G talent, Carrie, that

So many people in the industry, in the wireless business, are moving over to things like electric vehicle charging and satellite communications and other aspects that are near neighbor businesses to the basic cell phone business. And so that's why I was so happy to talk with you today and interested in answering any questions or any thoughts that you might want to talk about today.

So Rich, I was at an EV charging conference, I think it was a couple of years ago, and you're absolutely right. I mean, there's so many people, companies in our industry, as well as talented people in our industry, they've launched a new vertical in EV charging to diversify, or there's people who have been laid off, or wanted a career change in telecom that are moving to EV charging. So it's very relevant, and we'll talk about that in a minute, but.

Let me ask you this. So when I was there at this conference a couple of years ago at the EV conference, first of all, I saw a lot of people I know. that was fun. But it just felt like that, I don't know, there was just not a lot going on. that, you know, I was wondering, you know, is there capital here? Are these companies, you the companies really weren't hiring a lot? I mean, what's happening in the EV space now?

if you're charging space now? Yeah, that's a great question. And the answer is government money, government cheese is coming in waves. And that's what's happening from the standpoint of one of the aspects of the influx of people and resources into the industry. The other is government regulations. Besides the capital they're putting all of our tax money towards, the government is forcing

the auto industry and the trucking industry and the bus industry and literally every industry including bulldozers and front loaders and all of that to go greed if you will. It's a fascinating time given all that pressure from the government with their money and their regulation but at the end of the day you could see this in terms of what's going on with the car companies at this point. They're making

lots and lots of EVs, but they're sitting on the lots not selling so fast. And why is that? Because of range anxiety. And that's a real thing. And I'll give you an industrial example of that. it's great to say that in the trucking business, if you want to sell four trucks, one of them has to be an electric vehicle, or there's some regulations state by state as to what that ratio needs to be.

But if you're going to plow snow and you've had trucks that are fueled, you know, they go in, they put diesel in it and they go back out on the road to plow snow. If you now have an electric vehicle that can plow for four or five hours and has to come back and charge for six or eight hours, your snow plowing situation is going to change dramatically. government

Governments mandate things without always understanding all the ramifications, but the range anxiety of cars Trucks and buses for instance you can give a school bus You know, they're giving away school buses now to districts all over the country and That's fine. If you're do a route and take kids to school and it takes an hour to do to pick them up and drop them off But in like in New Jersey if you're during the summer

you have to pick up a load of children and you have to drive them to the amusement park that's 90 minutes away and wait for them and then come back. You can't do that on a single charge. So you'd have to have chargers at your, at the point of drop off to recharge the bus. So those are the kinds of range anxiety questions that are going on across the industry. And that's why there's so much emphasis now on building out EV fleet charging and fleet charging.

is defined as anything for a fleet of trucks or buses or whatever, but also any kind of installation where there might be 10 chargers or 12 chargers at a mall or a parking lot. So that was long-winded, but I hope that answers your question. Yeah, no, and the other question is that, so let's say, you know, I'm a telecom company, a telecom construction company looking to diversify, you know, the wireless has been slow.

So where are the opportunities in EV and EV charging? Would you say fleet? Would you say possibly global? I mean, is it a big opportunity that is it easy to get into? What are your thoughts there? You know, nothing's easy in business, Carrie. You know that. You've worked very hard to get where you are. nothing's easy. at the end of the day, it's all about putting your mind to it. So I'll give you an example.

Back in the day, we used to go to the giant CTIA shows back in the day, if you remember, when we had 40,000 people showing up and the show was a mile long. So one day a friend in the business came to me with a customer and said, you guys do in-building wireless stuff, don't you? My answer was, sure we do. And then the customer walked away and I said to this guy, what's in building wireless? So the answer is that you get into these things,

oftentimes inadvertently or you know by accident. And so in this situation it's about contacts and connections and that's why we're doing Charged Up is to bring information about exactly if you're a telecom company and you want to move into electric vehicle charging who do you need to know how do you need to get there what resources do you need and exactly how do you go about doing that. And so

We pride ourselves in really being an information source, helping people to figure out exactly how to make that transition. Now again, the skills are very similar. It's tower installation without the tower. So you're digging a trench or you're laying cable or you're doing an electrical upgrade or many, many of the same things. So really what it involves is now paying attention to if I want to install

a an installation for a company or a Town who's getting free school buses or you know school buses that are discounted that are electrical Who do I need to talk to I need to talk to the bus company selling them I need to talk to the manufacturers that are installing them. I need to talk to companies that are installing what are called the Nevi program installations, which is the government money putting a

charging station every 50 miles on every highway in America. you know, it's just like how do you if you, you know, hang out your shingle and say I'm in the telecom installation space. Well, what do you have to do to get that work? The same thing applies in the electric vehicle thing. And that's why we the publication has been so well received is because we're giving people information about exactly how to do that. Yes. And do you

know of the best events that people could attend in order to learn more? Is that going to be part of the publication as well? Or maybe could people reach out to you and just ask your advice? Hey, where should I go? What conferences are coming up so I can learn more? Yeah, so we've decided not to be sort of advertiser supported in terms of the things that go along with that. But we have promoted the shows that are going on in the industry.

For instance, I'm doing one tomorrow. I'm making, a panel at the Alliance for Action in New Jersey. Then there is a global transmission report show. And they're doing them around the country. There's one in New York on the 29th and 30th, I believe, or the 28th and 29th global transmission report. So we put the information in the newsletter about those events. There is a sort of trade, the,

Global Transmission Report is a conference. But there has been a trade show in Las Vegas. That may be the one you went to. And that seems to have come up a couple of times in the people that we've spoken to. But I don't know that there's the capital for companies in the business to go and put a 10 by 10 or 10 by 20 trade show booth together for something like that. I think we're early for that sort of thing.

I'll tell you a funny story. can remember being at what the very first show that ever happened in the cell phone industry. It was at the old World's Fairgrounds in New York City in about 1986 or seven. And there's 30 people in the room at the time. So from 30 people to 40,000 people is the progression that we had in wireless. And that's what's going to happen in the EV business too. And again,

We may at some point in time look to do a trade show in that setting, but that takes a host of people, an army of salespeople and operations folks to do that. But we think that that will take, I gave a speech at this global transmission report two years ago. Two things that were funny out of that. One was I said to the audience, this reminds me of the cell phone business 30 years ago.

You know, there's no infrastructure, there's no advertising, there's no rules, there's no roaming, there's no, you know, all the things that we saw 30 years ago, 40 years ago in the business and have developed over those years. And the other thing I asked was, and you know me well enough to know that I'm a bit irreverent and I'll ask anything to keep people from falling asleep. I said, you know, let's hold on a second. Anybody in this room making money? And it's like this.

like, whoa, went out over the audience. But that is truly an issue. There's been a lot of money raised to do this, and there's been a lot of money expended. The question is, where does the profitability come in and for, know, again, it's akin to the wireless business. There were many, many, many decades where, you know, it was very difficult to see who was making money in the wireless business. So you, you, you sow, you plant, and then eventually,

reap just like in the wireless business. Sounds like a really good opportunity for a new revenue stream. Also opportunity wise, looking at the wireless industry, telecom, how many people are jobless right now? what, obviously, you know, looking at EV, okay, how transferable are these skills?

If you're speaking to, let's say, someone who has been laid off in the wireless industry and they're just not able to find a job right now, how transferable are these skills? you know, is the EV industry hiring our industry people? As a matter of fact, that's a fantastic question. And the answer is yes, yes, and yes. The industry skills are transferable each and every day. So if you're a

project manager or you're a person that's doing purchasing or you're a supply chain type person or you're a field project manager or you're a recruiter or an HR person. The skills are extremely similar. It's basically a tower installation without the tower. So from your standpoint and what I know of your business,

The opportunity for you to take people who are underemployed or unemployed in the wireless space and say to an EV manufacturer of charging stations or a company that's doing other types of work in the business, whether it's a software piece or the hardware maintenance, all those things. The skills that we have in the wireless business are wholly transferable, one for one in this.

We don't need climbers in the EV charging space at this point in time, but so many of the other skills are transferable. Keep in mind, then you'll hear me say this and the people that read our publication too, without wireless telecom, there is no EV charging. Because all of this is built on, you take your cell phone and you connect to that charger.

And that's how it's built. there's no typically there are no credit card slots. There's very little other ways to pay other than if you have a Tesla and the Tesla charging station knows it's you knows it's your Tesla. But you are if you are in an area trying to charge your vehicle and you don't have good cell phone coverage you could be basically SOL in that situation.

And so that's why the relationship between cell phones and wireless and EV charging is a close near neighbor business. And it's very important that everyone understand that. Yes, yes. Well, this conversation is dear to my heart because I'm on my second Tesla right now. And so I know how that feels. What did you call it? The charging anxiety or range anxiety.

I have experienced that. get it. get it. Rich, what other, just from your viewpoint, because I know that you have a wide view of not just our industry, but really a lot that's going on out there now, other opportunities for people who are jobless, other opportunities, other verticals, other industries that could be transferable. Well, did stint recently. I did some consulting in the satellite business.

And that's another industry where the skills of our folks in wireless are very much transferable. There's so much going on with communications from satellite these days. Obviously, everyone is talking about Starlink and Starlink is very, very important to the ecosystem. We're doing a story in short order on is satellite connection the

answer to the future of EV charging. If you don't have that wireless connection and you have a satellite connection, you will still be able to potentially connect with that charging station and be able to charge. And we've seen AST Mobile and a number of other companies that are now very much involved in the direct to cell phone communications.

It's a very much another near neighbor business to what we do in Wireless Every Day. So from a recruiting standpoint, from a sharing of skills standpoint, very much akin to your background, my background in the wireless space. Yes, and I actually know people who've transitioned over to satellite. this one, a friend of ours, I'm sure.

Rebecca Slick, I think, looks her. She is over at Starlink. She was with one of the tower companies. so, you know, Rebecca Hunter is her name. And so she was with one of the tower companies and she's now in the satellite business. And so those skills, you know, the communications and the dedication to building an industry are skills that very much translate. Yes. And actually,

This podcast is brought to you by Starlink right now because I'm sitting in Puerto Rico on Starlink. So it's funny you mentioned that. So I hope the service is good. Let's just pray here. So far so good. Thank you. Exactly. So Rich, tell me, I want to ask you about the media world, right? How has the communications and media space really changed over the years? You mentioned a little bit about that earlier, but I mean, is

Are magazines still a thing? Is everything on digital? You know, Carrie, the sum total of what I don't know about media and publishing could fill volumes, but every day I'm learning more and more about it. So Connected Real Estate started out as a print magazine. so today that looks so amateurish and so out of style. But

At the end of the day, was really a great foundational education on how these things work. And that was again an advertising based publication. And so it worked. I mean, we got to the point, the beauty of it was I could go to a trade show and go into a conference room where there were 100 people and put a magazine on everybody's chair and boom, they would get to take it home and

digest it and do whatever they wanted with it. But I'll tell you an interesting story. So I was at a trade show recently about electric vehicles talking to a representative who was selling electric front loaders, bulldozers and things. And the guy wanted no part of whatever I was talking about. He really couldn't have been less interested. And I started to talk about my background and, you know,

fill the space before he threw me out. But at the end of the day, I pulled out a connected real estate magazine. They go, I've seen that. And it was like an icebreaker. And so I think the heritage of the print media and then moving into digital media and moving then into sort of the 21st century of how we do social media is really...

For me, it's been a great education again. I'm a dinosaur and didn't know anything about you know how to do this But along the way I've really had to learn how it all works how you get subscribers how you do all the things that you have to do in the media space, but At the end of the day, there's one thing that's very much the catalyst for all this and that's information is king and You know whether that's you know information

that my daughter wants to know about buying something from Shein or buying something from, you know, Elf or whatever she's looking for in social media. It's information based. And so now what we're doing with the EV charging space is providing that information. But the learning curve of all that you need to know that's very different than, you know, physical construction in the wireless business has been remarkable. And so, you know,

Two things, as I said, I'm a stone-cold entrepreneur, and also I'm trying to be a learner. And in learning what really is going on when people talk about, you know, they use terminology that was completely foreign to me. It's been really interesting. It makes you want to get up every day and go to work and learn more. So at this point in time, I'm really excited about the prospect of being able to sort of master this, you know, this communications industry.

but in a completely different way. Rather than being the one to deliver that information, we're creating that information and passing it along. And now the challenge is how many people can we get to enjoy this and decide they want to look at it on a weekly, daily, monthly basis? we are looking to provide as much or as little content to people as they want, not overwhelm them, but to give them a background in what do they need to know?

One of the things we worked on was in a mall the other day, parking, and I saw a charging station and it had a giant screen, probably, I would say, two feet by four feet on the charger itself, and it showing advertising. And so we're doing a story for the next week or so called, is the future of EV charging in advertising? And so if...

You go down south where, you in New Jersey we have, we still get our gas pumped for us, but everywhere else in the country pretty much, you pump your own gas. Well, some of the stations down in points in the south have, you know, little advertising terminals on them. But when you get a two foot by four foot screen that's showing you beautiful, you know, def 4K video, that's pretty cool. And that may be...

One of the ways that EV charging has to come along from the question I asked at that conference, is anybody making money? Very tough if you get a couple of cars a day or even 10 or 15 cars a day to make money selling electricity in those kinds of amounts. But advertising may be one of the important aspects that get us to

You know, the same thing that happened in the cell phone business. You know, there is an enormous amount of data sharing and advertising that goes on and may not always be obvious to us, but that's how the cell phone companies augment their charging us 30, 40, 50, 100 bucks a month. So Rich, before we close, I just have to say that one thing I'm really present to is your ability and your willingness and excitement to reinvent yourself.

no matter what age, right? And I know you and I both are in that, I guess you call that second half of life. And there's a lot, there's a lot that we need to know about the world today, about social media and about just, know, technology and AI and, you know, I've always looked at you and I've had so much respect for you because you just keep learning, you just keep in creating, know, you say, look, I will figure it out and I am not done yet. So I think that's a message to,

people out there who are in that second half and maybe some people are experiencing age discrimination and looking for jobs and they're not getting what they want. But I think that being a lifelong learner and always stepping up your skills is valuable and that's what you're doing. So I want to celebrate you for that. Thank you. And that's very kind of you to say. And again, I relish that opportunity. But I will tell you that that has its limitations.

in all honesty. So last night I bought a keyboard for my iPad that I do videos on each week, a couple of times a week, and we're doing more now with Charged Up, but I had to have my 15 year old figure out how to connect the keyboard with the iPad. So, you know, I'll keep learning and I'll try to understand as much as I can, but there's that, you know, that heritage of...

You know, in many, many, of my positions, I had assistants and people to do lots of things. had IT people and folks that did their end of the thing. now, you know, when you're an entrepreneur and you start out, and it's all you all by yourself in an office, you got to figure these things out. But from learning from about publishing from how do you put a magazine, a physical magazine together? How do you edit it? How do you publish it? How do you print it?

How you send it? How do you get the slug on there from the post office? All of those things that you had to learn. And now, all that goes away, now how do I send it out into space so that people can watch and learn and read and watch videos? Okay, so we need a YouTube channel. Okay, let's get a YouTube channel now. All right, we're gonna do a social media post and how do we get LinkedIn going? What's this that? All of those things go into it, Carrie, but.

very kind of you to say, again, I think I operate in those situations more out of fear than anything else. It's like, if I don't know how to do it and it doesn't get done, what's gonna happen? So I've had to be forced to learn or find people that I can lean on that do have those skills, but thank you for saying that, it was very kind. Yes, Rich, thank you for coming on the show. This is fantastic. I know that I'm gonna see you again and again at conferences, and where can people reach you?

Well, number of ways they can reach me. It's richb at 5thgenmedia.com or rich at chargedup.com. I'm sorry, rich at chargeduppro.com. But also I'm on LinkedIn and I'm very accessible on that and love to hear from all our friends and folks in the industry. know, so many people that worked for me over the years pop up in my life all the time. And so they pop up in

in wireless and they pop up in the EV space now. So I'm really excited about that. I love it. Well, thank you for coming on the show, Rich. This has been fantastic. I appreciate it. Thanks, Carrie. Appreciate you having me.